Cathy and Todd discuss 9 to 5 and Working Girl, two movies Gen X women grew up on that shaped how we think about work, power, and what it means to succeed. We watched women push through, keep their heads down, and prove themselves in systems that were never really made for them, and we learned to do the same. We’ve told our daughters they can be anything, but we also passed down burnout, perfectionism, and the pressure to keep it all together. Now girls are asking, “Why are we working so hard for something that doesn’t even work for us?” This episode is about what these films gave us, what they left out, and how we’re rethinking success, feminism, and parenting the next generation.
Some Ways to Support Us
Links shared in this episode:
For the full show notes, visit zenpopparenting.com.
This week’s sponsor(s):
- Avid Co DuPage County Area Decorating, Painting, Remodeling by Avid Co includes kitchens, basements, bathrooms, flooring, tiling, fire and flood restoration.
- David Serrano- Certified Financial Planner- 815-370-3780
- MenLiving – A virtual and in-person community of guys connecting deeply and living fully. No requirements, no creeds, no gurus, no judgements
- Todd Adams Life & Leadership Coaching for Guys
Other Ways to Support Us
- Ask Us Anything!
- Follow us on social media
- Buy and leave a review for Cathy’s Book Zen Parenting: Caring for Ourselves and Our Children in an Unpredictable World
- Find everything ZPR on our Resources Page
- Guys- Complete a MenLiving Connect profile
AI Summary
Summary
Podcast Planning and Technical Updates
Todd and Kathy discussed technical issues related to Wi-Fi and recording devices, noting improvements in connectivity. They also talked about editing a podcast, considering the duration of opening segments and transitions between songs. Todd mentioned his leg pain and a humorous incident involving an ice pack. They prepared to record a new episode of “Zen Pop Parenting,” with Todd introducing the segment.
Gen X Feminism in 1980s Films
Todd and his co-host discussed the cultural impact of two iconic 1980s films, “9 to 5” and “Working Girl,” exploring how they reflected and shaped Gen X feminism. They highlighted the films’ portrayal of workplace inequality, the pressure to “have it all,” and the contrast between systemic change and individual ambition. Todd shared personal anecdotes about watching these movies with his daughters and reflecting on their messages in the context of his own life and the 2016 election. The discussion also touched on the broader cultural landscape of the 1980s, including music and fashion, and how these elements contributed to the era’s feminist energy.
1991 Hearing’s Impact on Culture
Todd discussed the Anita Hill-Clarence Thomas Supreme Court nomination hearing in 1991, highlighting its impact on workplace harassment awareness and the “Year of the Woman” election in 1992. He noted that while Clarence Thomas was ultimately confirmed, the hearing sparked national conversations about gender, race, and power in the workplace, with parallels to more recent events involving Christine Blasey Ford and Brett Kavanaugh. Todd also mentioned how the cultural shift influenced TV and film, citing shows like “Murphy Brown” and movies like “9 to 5” and “Thelma & Louise” as examples of changing portrayals of women in the workplace.
Women’s Strength in Film
Todd discussed the themes of strength and resilience in women, using examples from movies like Steel Magnolias and Working Girl. He shared interesting facts about the filming of Working Girl, including Melanie Griffith’s addiction issues and Mike Nichols’ directorial approach. Todd also highlighted Carly Simon’s achievements and the success of 9 to 5, noting its cultural impact and Dolly Parton’s role in its creation.
Working Girl” Character Analysis
Todd discussed the film “Working Girl,” focusing on Melanie Griffith’s transformation from a sex symbol to a leading actress and the movie’s plot twists. He highlighted the unexpected proposal scene and criticized the character development, particularly the rapid progression from an affair to a marriage proposal. Todd also compared “Working Girl” to other films with similar plot elements, such as “The Deer Hunter” and “9 to 5,” and expressed a desire to watch it as a double feature with “9 to 5.”
Fantasies of Workplace Revenge
Todd discussed the movie “9 to 5” and its plot, which revolves around three female office workers who fantasize about killing their boss. He shared details about the characters’ fantasies, including Judy’s desire to hunt down her boss, Dora Lee’s plan to give him a taste of his own medicine, and Violet’s Snow White-inspired plot to poison his coffee. Todd expressed his fondness for the movie despite its slow pace and over-the-top plot, noting that it served as a fantasy for women facing workplace oppression. He also briefly mentioned Melanie Griffith’s marital history and her daughter, Dakota Johnson, who followed in her mother’s footsteps in the entertainment industry.
1980s Feminism in Film
Todd discussed the themes of 1980s and 1990s movies, particularly focusing on “Working Girl” and “9 to 5,” which often celebrated individual women’s success within a system that harms women, rather than addressing systemic inequality. He explained how these films portrayed personal victories within unchanged systems, contributing to a mentality that there can only be one woman at the top. Todd also shared his favorite scenes from both movies, highlighting humorous and dramatic moments, and discussed the concept of “neoliberal feminism” in the context of these films.
Generational Feminism and Communication Dynamics
Todd discussed the plot of a movie involving a character named Catherine who stole an idea from someone else and later shared it at a wedding. He also explained the different waves of feminism, particularly focusing on Generation X’s experience in the 1980s, which was about balancing career and family while navigating office politics and sexual harassment. Todd highlighted how women have historically learned to speak in a way that men can understand, a concept illustrated by a quote from Meryl Streep, while noting that men often struggle to communicate effectively with women.
Cultural Pressures on Women in Work
Todd discussed the cultural pressure on women to be smaller and less assertive in the workplace, tracing this back to the 1980s and examining its impact on personal and professional identity. He highlighted how feminism was often framed as a personal strategy rather than a collective movement, using examples from films like “Working Girl” and “9 to 5” to illustrate this point. Todd also connected this concept to multi-level marketing schemes, noting that 99% of participants either lose money or make nothing, and emphasized the importance of understanding these schemes as a form of exploitation rather than legitimate business opportunities.
MLM Exploitation and Gender Equality
Todd discussed the targeting of women by multi-level marketing (MLM) schemes, highlighting how they exploit women with limited options, such as stay-at-home mothers, by promising independence and financial freedom that is rarely achieved. Todd emphasized the importance of teaching girls about systemic inequalities and preparing them to navigate these challenges, while also encouraging sons to understand consent and respect for women. The conversation also touched on the double standards faced by women, including the expectation to be both powerful and palatable, and the need for a new model of masculinity that supports gender equality.
Empowering Women’s Ambition
Todd discussed the importance of ambition for women, referencing Reese Witherspoon’s 2015 speech at the Glamour Women of the Year Awards. He highlighted how ambition is often misunderstood and undervalued for women, contrasting it with the portrayal in movies like “9 to 5” and “Working Girl.” Todd emphasized that ambition should be seen as a positive force, not just for personal success but for creating a better world, and shared his own evolving understanding of ambition as he has aged. He encouraged parents to teach their daughters that ambition is not selfish but can be generous and collaborative, citing examples of women helping each other, like the WNBA team he mentioned.
Analyzing Feminism in 80s Films
The group discussed the movies “Working Girl” and “9 to 5,” analyzing themes of feminism, racial diversity, and body representation. They shared favorite quotes from the films, including memorable lines from Dolly Parton and Harrison Ford. The participants played a music game related to the movies and discussed movie trivia. They concluded the podcast by playing the instrumental theme from “Working Girl” as their closing music.